Just Make Art
A conversation about making art and the artist's journey with Ty Nathan Clark and Nathan Terborg, two artists trying to navigate the art world, just like you.
In each episode, the duo chooses a quote from a known artist and uses it as a springboard for discussion.
Through their conversations, Ty and Nathan explore the deeper meaning of the quote and how it can be applied to the artists studio practice. They share their own personal stories and struggles as artists, and offer practical advice and tips for overcoming obstacles and achieving artistic success.
Whether you're a seasoned artist or just starting out, "Just Make Art" provides valuable insights and inspiration to help you navigate the creative process and bring your artistic vision to life. With their engaging and conversational style, Ty and Nathan create a welcoming space for listeners to explore their own artistic passions and learn from two artists working hard to navigate the art world.
Just Make Art
Jeremy Cowart: Capturing Essence Through the Lens of Innovation
Ever wondered how to turn happy accidents into artistic masterpieces? Join us as we sit down with Jeremy Cowart, the visionary photographer known for his high-profile subjects like Taylor Swift and Barack Obama, to explore the unpredictable nature of art and the magic of childlike creativity. Jeremy shares his journey from launching the impactful Help Portrait initiative to pioneering the world of Lightographs and NFTs. Get ready to be inspired by his relentless pursuit of innovation and his unique approach to photography that ensures no two photos are ever the same.
Discover the intricate dance between passion, purpose, and creativity as we delve into the purity of creating for creation's sake. Jeremy's insights reveal the pressure of social media on today's creative processes and emphasize the beauty of embracing one's unique identity. Through personal anecdotes and quotes from iconic figures like Basquiat, Thom Yorke, Picasso and Oscar Wilde, we explore the essence of maintaining an open and playful mindset in our artistic endeavors, reminding us that true artistry thrives on the freedom to explore and express. With reflections on the importance of lifelong learning and adapting to new creative landscapes, this episode celebrates the relentless spirit of artists who continue to reinvent themselves and inspire others through their unyielding commitment to self-expression.
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@justmakeartpodcast @tynathanclark @nathanterborg
This is Ty Nathan Clark and I'm coming to you on an early, humid, rainy Texas morning. It's 6.30am and I've been arriving at my studio between 5.30 and 6.30 these days to get to work before it turns into probably about 120 degree oven. That is a Texas studio in the summers and it's usually about that hot around 10 am in the morning, so I try to get a few hours in before the heat wave comes. But anyways, nathan a few weeks ago called me and said he was heading to Nashville for a bit and he wanted to know if I had any artist friends in Nashville that he could have as a guest co-host on the show, and so, without hesitation, I said hell yes, my buddy, jeremy Cowart, let me call him now. So you are in for a treat today, as we have our second guest co-host on the show with Nathan from Nashville.
Speaker 1:His name is Jeremy Cowart, and a few years back Jeremy was named the internet's most influential photographer, and I don't know if I have met somebody who is constantly chasing ideas in every direction, here and there, as they lead him as much as myself. Well, that person is Jeremy Cowart. 100%. He has been constantly finding himself in new situations, moments, successes and failures, all while dealing with his life's hardships, which is raising four kids who are absolutely incredible. One of his child, his special needs. He's had radical loss in his family, all while managing his own neurological disease. He is a 100% true inspiration to me, but an inspiration and overcoming and continuing to make art against all odds. And, jeremy, I'm telling you everybody has mastered pushing resistance to the side and just moving forward in work and creating art. He has always, as an artist, sat at the edge of innovation, invention and evolution of photography, combining art and technology into his processes, and he absolutely blows me away. He has photographed. The list is long, but I'm just going to name a few the likes of Taylor Swift, emma Stone, gwyneth Paltrow, former President Barack Obama, the Kardashians, chris Stapleton, sting, miley Cyrus, dolly Parton, imogen Heap, iron and Wine Feist, brandi Carlile, christopher Guest, eugene Levy I mean, the list goes on and on and on, and I'm so excited to have Jeremy and Nathan today on the episode bringing some quotes from Picasso and Basquiat, eleanor Roosevelt, oscar Wilde and Tom York. It's going to be absolutely incredible.
Speaker 1:And a little bit about Jeremy in 2008,. Before social media, he used the blogging network to spread this beautiful, simple idea to find people in need and take their photos, print the photos and give them away to the people right after they took the pictures, and called it help portrait. Help portrait has become a global movement spanning 80 plus countries and millions of portraits they're going to talk about a little bit in the episode, and the stories since 2008 all over the world are just mind-blowing. They're just so inspirational, incredible. So in 2020, jeremy invented a new medium altogether and coined the term lightograph to describe it. In his words, it means the evolution of light through a still photograph is not a video because there's no motion and it's not a photograph because the analog light is constantly changing. And to take it a step further, he decided to make them interactive and meant them as NFTs, and so if you take your finger or your cursor on a mobile phone and you move over the image, you'll notice that you get to control the analog light in the portraits. It's insane. It's crazy. He was featured. This is incredible.
Speaker 1:Jeremy was featured at the 2022 Phillips auction in London alongside photography greats Ansel Adams, annie Leibovitz and Richard Avedon, and more. It's insane. And in May 2023, he created Auras. This is probably one of my favorite things 10,000 completely unique NFTs, produced in 20 minutes from start to finish, without relying on generative code, and it was the first time he ever revealed his creative process that he'd spent 10 years privately developing in the studio. It's one of those things you have to see to believe. It's absolutely incredible, and Nathan and Jeremy are going to be coming from Jeremy's brand new studio in Nashville today in the episode where he is using his process and techniques and offering 60 second photo shoots to the public. So he'll shoot 200 portraits in one minute, with every portrait having completely unique results. It's insane and you're going to see if you're watching this on Spotify or YouTube. In the video version, you're going to be able to see one of his screens behind him. It just blows me away.
Speaker 1:Jeremy says he doesn't set goals or plan ahead and money never motivates him. It's always about the idea. It always has been and it always will be. Some of the ideas fail miserably, but the lessons learned are invaluable. So immediately I go chase the next one. I've done it for 20 years and I'll do it the rest of my life. My hope is that the public sees my love for art and love for people throughout all of it. That's from Jeremy Cowart, a dear friend, an incredible artist, peer, and I cannot wait for you to hear his story, his process of innovation, overcoming so many things that he and Nathan jump into. So let me get off here and let's head out to Jeremy's brand new, insane studio in Nashville, tennessee. Nathan, take it away.
Speaker 2:Jeremy, thanks for joining us today. Of course, you are officially our second guest.
Speaker 3:Co-host is what we've been calling it, and you are my official first anything in this new studio. I love it Ever.
Speaker 2:We are christening the space Very much To talk about for the people that are watching on YouTube and watch the video. So we are sitting in front of a. How big is this LED screen?
Speaker 3:It is 11 feet tall by 10 feet wide.
Speaker 2:Amazing, and so the work behind us that is being projected here is Jeremy's, and it's tremendous. And I'm going to try to not look behind me because I'll just get distracted and I won't be able to focus on our conversation, but that's super cool.
Speaker 2:So thank you for having me. Of course, I'm excited to be here in Nashville with you and excited to get into some of the quotes that you've got laid out here. What we like to do with our guest co-hosts is kind of have you steer the ship with regards to quotes that are meaningful to you around the creative process, around art and just your whole journey with art as well. So we'll probably just jump in with the first one on the list here, I'll share it and then I'll ask you to kind of take your first pass at how it resonates with you and why it's meaningful to you personally. So the first quote that you got for us is learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist. Picasso said that Learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist. Why is that quote meaningful to you? Why is that something that resonates with you personally as a creative?
Speaker 3:Yeah, because I think artists and creatives tend to be a bit arrogant in there and was I was the arrogant artist, so I'm speaking from experience. But earlier in my career I was like I don't need to read the manuals on how the light works, I don't need to know everything about the camera, I'll just live on intuition and I'll just do my thing. And that did work. Actually, my career exploded in the beginning, landed hollywood agent and was off to the races and I knew nothing about lights, nothing about camera settings, nothing about cameras, like it was all intuition. And so that does work to a degree if you just have a gift for seeing, for creating. But then later in my career I started to get really, really nerdy about what does this light do, what, what are the rules, what, what, what can the camera do? And so the more that I learned all the things I didn't want to learn in the beginning, the more it just exploded. My creativity, in fact my entire process in here now is like the most technically absurd thing in the world, like I don't know of anybody else shooting the way I shoot. Yeah, and it's because I finally overcame that mental hurdle and ego of you know, I'll just live on my whatever. And so, yeah, like I think. And then once you learn all that, like picasso says, then you go back to the, blow it all up and make weird shit and you know, but the more you learn true, I actually have a variation not a variation that quote but I always say the more you learn technically, the more you can achieve creatively.
Speaker 3:And so to all young artists, like, sure, like, lean on your natural gifts and intuition, but I'm telling you, if you force yourself to truly learn everything that every piece of gear can do, you'll be blown away at what can happen. Yeah, I love that. So. So another analogy um, imagine you're a carpenter, and if a carpenter has nails and a hammer and wood, he can build certain things right. And but then if you start to add to that toolbox and give him, give him eventually a bulldozer and who knows what else, like, the more tools he had, the more, more he can build. And it's exact same process with creativity, a hundred percent.
Speaker 2:So I mean, when you start talking about tools, now you're really speaking my language, yeah seriously, seriously.
Speaker 3:So you're a perfect example.
Speaker 2:When you share that, I'm reminded of a story from your, from your book about kind of the winging it version I forget what the title, but the story of when you were shooting the uh for prison break, which was kind of like one of your first big gigs right. So would that be an example of sort of figuring out on the fly?
Speaker 3:That's right. It's gotta be one of the only, not the only, but it's not often that a photographer gets hired on a big job like that, learns how to do his craft from his own assistant, literally. Because I got hired on that job and it was like a sound stage of equipment like lights, and because we had the light eight or to ten sets, yeah, with five to six lights per set, right, I don't even know how to use the light. So I had to bs my way with my assistants because, like, what do you want to do? And I was like I was a kid and I was 28 years old yeah I was like, yeah, just, you know moody, but I don't even know how to.
Speaker 3:So but then watching my own crew set up my lights on my shoe and I was like, oh, that's how you set up a light and that's how you, you know 100, I learned by literally just doing and watching my own crews, you know, set stuff up yeah, so what doors got open for you creatively once you did develop a level of competency or even mastery, you know, with all the many tools that you can use in your particular craft. What doors opened up?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, just people coming to me because I was doing things really different. And I was doing things really different because, like I was just saying, I was learning the tools and learning how to master it all. So my other advantage was when photography switched from analog to digital which I'm now really dating myself because that's been about 20 years I was already a graphic designer and so I had this massive advantage because all these old school film photographers were like what Computers, photoshop, like what is this? And so I was just like just 90 miles an hour ahead, with way ahead of the game, so early in my career. That's another reason I got hired. So much is that I knew how to do things that no one else did, right, um, which I guess we should have started with that background. Is that, um, you know? Uh, to rewind a bit, growing up I really just wanted to be a painter. That was my obsession all the way through childhood, high school, college. Then my parents were afraid of me making a living as a painter.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:And so they were like, have you heard of this thing? You know computers and graphics and Photoshop? I was like, oh hell, no, I was like scared to death of technology, of like going you know all these computers thought I was an idiot. And so they, they sent me now on this gosh, 30 year detour of away from painting and fine art into all things digital, which is uh, which has been amazing, that they does the most important thing they could have ever done. But it's weird because I still feel like I'm just a painter, stuck in this, this world of commercial and digital you know it's crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how do you think that impacts your, your work or your approach to the work that you do?
Speaker 3:I actually shoot now very much like a painter, and what I mean by that is I mean, the work you do is extremely, first of all, beautiful. I just saw his work for the first time today. It's incredible. Appreciate it.
Speaker 3:But any abstract, we'll go to the abstract painter, like even Ty. When I watch Ty's videos, he's overseeing a process meant to even surprise him. He doesn't know where every single drip of paint is going to land. He's not controlling every little, but he is controlling the overall vision and most photographers are. It's the same thing. They're expressing something. They know where they went their life, they know where they went their thing.
Speaker 3:Steven Pressfield said most artists are expressing themselves. The rest are discovering themselves. That was probably the most profound like weight off my shoulders, because all these years, even recently, I always felt like, well, I'm not an artist if I'm not, like pouring my soul onto the canvas and expressing some traumatic event or whatever, like I've just never been that artist. Like when I create, it's discovering. It's like I don't know what's about to happen. I don't think ty, I don't think yourself really know, knows what's about to happen, right until you get in and you just, you just do it, and so all that to say a long way of saying that this, what you're seeing right now in my studio, is a contrived happy accident when it comes to photography, like it's all designed to surprise me.
Speaker 3:I've got lights changing, I've got this wall changing backdrops, I've got crap in front of the lens that's reflecting light, prisms and all kinds of stuff, and when I shoot, the cool thing about the process is no photo can be reproduced because I don't know which background part, I don't know which light part, I don't know which prism reflected which way, because I'm even moving the prisms of the shoot and then you have somebody standing in front of the camera and whatever pose or expression or thing they did.
Speaker 3:So it's all this combination to where that can't be done again, and that's why I consider my form of photography is a form of art and expression, really discovery. It really is like abstract painting, because I used to be in studios and I hated it because it was the same light, the same angle, the same backdrop, and so it's taken me years to figure out how to shoot like a paint, which is just like this wall behind us, where it's just stuff dripping and splattering and and just whatever happens happens I love that, ty, and I have actually discussed that, that idea a lot on the podcast already and, just you know, between the two of us.
Speaker 2:But just the idea of creating the conditions.
Speaker 2:You use the word contrive, which I, which I love a lot it's got a little bit more of a negative connotation to it. It's manufacturing the space to be surprised for the accidents to occur and I almost think there's a little bit of I don't want to say selfishness in it. But when you talk about that Pressfield quote of discovering ourselves, there's something about that process of discovery of whether it's when you load the images and look at them for the first time, not knowing what you're going to see, or, ty, pulling up the piece of cardboard, having an idea, having created the conditions for something to happen, and that's kind of the beautiful thing about the artistic process. I think general is that when we have, the more time we spend, it comes back to repetition, right, the more time you spend, the more images that you capture, the more you can not replicate but at least, again, create as many of the conditions, as many of the elements to sort of sprinkle in the mix and just kind of see what comes out. Right, yeah, totally yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a it's. It's like. I love it, Like now. I literally used to hate being in a studio. Now there's nowhere else. I'd rather be, because every shoot is different. Something I don't know. Yeah, it's always surprising me.
Speaker 2:I love that. Let's move on to your next quote. This is by Basquiat. I like kids' work more than work by real artists any day. I like kids' work more than real artists any day. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I could see some eyebrows raising about that one. But man, I literally just found that quote this morning, because you ought to spell quotes. I was like I know I'd heard Basquiat say some things that I liked, but I never remember that. I just found it this morning. Anyway, the reason I love that and connect to it is because I've said the same thing many, many times.
Speaker 3:Because having kids, when I go to my kids' schools and I walk through the hallways and I see all the art projects, I freaking come to life. Yeah, and the reason I do is because to see purely, I mean in its rawest, purest form, a child's imagination yes, scribbling. Because all adults, with no matter what artist you name, we're all thinking about whether it's how to monetize this, how to impress people, how to do this, express oneself. They're thinking about all the things we're talking about. They're thinking about social media, what's going to get likes, how are people going to respond?
Speaker 3:But when you look at a child's art, it's just so innocent and many times way cooler than you know a lot of adult art, and so I sometimes I like want to buy a piece, like off the wall of a children's school. But then I'm like a creeper because I'm like this adult, like you know, walking through the hallways of the school but I literally can look at children's like the younger gosh that sounds even worse. But like the younger the child, the more innocent their art is, like, even like a toddler just throwing paint around, actually a little older, like around kindergarten to like third grade when they draw portraits, because I'm so fascinated with portraits, but the way they create faces and it's just like I'm like, yes, that's it, that's it, that's what I want to see, you know, uh. But of course there's gazillions of amazing adult artists. But I just love that bosco said that because I'm like man, I relate to that.
Speaker 3:There was a recent airport exhibit, a massive airport exhibit of children's art, and I just spent like an hour just staring at all these kids' paintings and drawings because I just think it's so inspiring.
Speaker 2:You use the word pure, and I think that's about the best way one could describe the art. That comes from a child, and I think it's a product of not yet being self-conscious, you know For sure. And that's what. I don't care what age you are. It's funny you said there. I was actually thinking in my mind. I'm like I wonder about when that starts to sort of fade a little bit, cause it does for sure. I was talking to somebody the other day and and um and I'm sure you get this a lot too you talk to people who are are not creatives will say things like oh yeah, I don't have a creative bone in my body, and it's like well, you, you, you did at one point you know, you probably still Well, the other quote is in there.
Speaker 3:Every child is born an artist. The problem is how to remain one. That's right Once we grow up. You know from Picasso that's just it, right.
Speaker 2:It's like you know you'll never walk into the classroom of kindergartners and find somebody, find a kid who's like I don't know how to, I don't know how to draw. It's like give me the crayons, give me the markers, let me, let me get after it. Yeah, and so so much of it. I think, um, and I'm with you. I think that the art that I really appreciate is something where there's evidence of both control and spontaneity. You know, in a way, that spontaneity, though, is really something that it's, it's, it's, it's, it's pure, because it's in the moment, right.
Speaker 2:It's pure because it's a product of, of play, without concern for the product, you know, without concern for the result, without concern for how it's going to be received or, to your point, you know how many likes it's going to get.
Speaker 2:I, I really we've got kids about the same age. I really wonder, I really fear for how the impact of you know, things like social media impact or affect kids' creativity, and there I can just imagine, I'm just trying to project or imagine what it would have been like had social media been around when I was a kid, growing up and drawing or whatever you know. Would I have shared it? Who knows? But just the idea of, I mean I remember vividly, like walking upstairs after you know, drawing a picture of Kirby Puckett knowing I didn't get the hand right on his, you know and being like I hope mom likes this. I hope you know what I'm saying and magnify that by, however right, an audience of infinite people that could potentially see something once you put it out into the world. I really wonder, I fear for how much that would cause creatives of all ages to sort of edit what they're doing in real time and hold back.
Speaker 3:I could go on and on about the impact of all that, the comparison, but I've actually never thought about it from an art standpoint for kids, and I just think about about all the other things, the general comparison and the toxicity of it all. And I just read the other day that, finally, schools are starting to not allow phones at all in the school. I'm like, finally, right, you know it's gotta happen, right, it's a whole different topic. Um, yeah, I thought about being a high school and being able to being afraid to post your art because of fear of you know, right, yeah, that's huge. I wish there was like an Instagram account that only posted like children's drawings and paintings like we're talking about. It'd be sick. Yeah, my most followed account, yeah.
Speaker 2:I love that. The next quote that you've got on our list for today. Well done, by the way, this is a powerful list. Eleanor Roosevelt said small minds discuss people. Average minds discuss events, great minds discuss ideas.
Speaker 3:Love, love that quote Craziest story. Years ago I was in a group with a bunch of guys and we would meet every week and at one point a buddy of mine said to me he was like you know what coward, you only hang out with cool and important people. You're too good for us. And for like two or three weeks I was like really convicted by that. I was like I do hang out with a lot of cool or important or famous people. But I was like is it because they're cool or important or famous? And after like literally tons of just dwelling on that, that statement, I finally realized something. I was like it has nothing to do with their cool factor, their followers or whatever. What I realized is that group of guys that I was hanging out with every time we hung out it was I hate my job, I hate my boss, Everybody sucks. Life is terrible. This is a dream.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And what I realized is that I'm drawn to dreamers, creators, doers, thinkers, ideators, and it doesn't matter if they're cool. Like I thought about the literal hundreds of hours I have spent in this building meeting with kids, meeting with teenagers and college students and just people that want to discuss ideas, want to get my feedback, want to pick my brain, all that stuff, and I love it because we're discussing ideas. Those people aren't cool, they're not important or famous or whatever, and I don't care if it's the janitor in the building. I want to discuss how do we make this world a better place? How do we drink? What are you working on? What are you going to do with your life? What are you passionate about?
Speaker 3:And so it just so happens that people that are cool or important or famous are doers. They got there because they chase ideas and they chase dreams. And so that that quote by Eleanor Roosevelt just hit home. Because, like when I go to I'm sure the same way with our kids you go to like kids gatherings, athletic events, whatever you're with as a parent and all the other dads are like talking about again people or events. It's like they're gossiping or they're talking about I don't know, stock market or politics, or last night's baseball game or lebron james, which I love, sports too and I'm not saying we can't talk about those things.
Speaker 3:Uh, I certainly do talk about people and events. But I just come to life when I'm with you and or drew or anybody else where we're discussing ideas. Yeah, um, ideas meaning any of those topics you know, like, what are we doing with the list? Because being a creative of any kind is essentially like old school being a hunter, like what, how are you going to provide this month? What are you doing? What are you doing? You know, we're not just having these boring nine to five jobs, we're just we hate it and we were just there to get a paycheck, like.
Speaker 2:So it's fascinating to me to hang out and spend time with literally any other creative, whether they're cool or not, I don't care, you know, yeah, so have you figured out a way to skip through all of the small talk and BS and get to the idea part with people that maybe don't go there, naturally?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I try to. I mean, it's hard too, as creatives, like not to talk about ourselves because, like I am so passionate about what I do for a living, I could talk about this stuff all day, and I've learned that that's a turnoff to most people, because they don't like their jobs, they don't want to talk about work, right? So when I talk about my work, it can come across as cocky or arrogant, because I'm talking about myself, and I've had to like really reconcile that because I don't think I'm an arrogant person, I just love what I do. And so, um, yeah, I try to like ask questions like what, what do you?
Speaker 3:What are you passionate about? If you don't like your job, well then what do you want to do? Well, I'd like to quit my job one day and do this, and I'm like, well, why don't you Like? Time is ticking, life is short, like we just talked about. You know, each of us have lost a sibling and so, like man, life is just way too short to not give it a go and try to pursue what you love.
Speaker 2:That's so true. I think that reminds me of something that I began to understand just in the last few years here. But I think that the more you're living in passion and living with purpose, let's just say to you know, throw some cliches in the mix, but I think it naturally leads to less patience for bullshit I think most creatives have. I won't speak for you, but I'm going to take an educated guess and assume that I'm right about this. You, me, we have a thousand ideas that are going to pop through. You know what I mean. Just getting our coffees on the way over here, just seeing the cracks in this beautiful building and the floors, oh, that's a beautiful, that's a nice mark. Let me capture it. You know, there's always something, captain, that's probably a product of the ADD, that I feel we may share as well. But I don't want to reserve any space in the finite amount of time and whatever bandwidth that I have to put towards BS or things that don't lend themselves to doing something, making a contribution, making something right, creating yeah, yeah, it's just.
Speaker 3:yeah, it's way too short and even I mean, I have a uh weird neurological disease that I'm fighting against and so, yeah, I'm like facing my own daunting physical challenges and so I feel like even more I've got this race against time to crank out stuff and do what I love, and so it's amazing how much that impacts things for sure.
Speaker 2:Can I ask you more specifically how that affects the way you think about your work?
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, it's funny, because this studio setup thing that I did never was because of my disease, because my disease didn't really start getting bad until the last year or two. But it's amazing how that just collided, because now I just get to stand behind a tripod and basically stand still when I shoot. I don't have to be on location and sitting up a million lights and gear by myself. See, it doesn't impact things too much right now. It would have our out, it would have I was doing what you do.
Speaker 2:Sorry, you and ty you and ty both. How you think about your work, though, how you approach what you're doing on, yeah, whatever timeline, or however you think about that, I don't think my health stuff affects how I think about it.
Speaker 3:Now I gotta just do what I got to do and figure it out, right, yeah. But I do watch even your videos and Ty's videos, like how physical it is. I mean, man, I love to do that kind of work, but I don't think I could. My body could be bent over on my knees all day, yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, it's a lot. The clock's ticking for all of us. Yeah, for sure, for sure. The next quote you've got for us is um, from oscar wilde, and this is an often shared quote. Yeah, for a good reason.
Speaker 3:Be yourself, everyone else is taken yeah, I just, for a million reasons, love that quote. It's kind of. It's kind of similar to to the Picasso every child is born an artist, like right now my 13-year-old girl. She's African-American from Haiti and she wants to look like a white girl and I'm like trying to tell like when she has a fro, it is truly the most gorgeous thing ever. Like she just looks. Everybody agrees, like we all freak out the rare moment she has a fro.
Speaker 3:And I was just telling her last week I'm like why do you want to be like all the other people, like you're so gorgeous, so unique, so special, and your fro only accentuates that, only, like highlights that. And I understand I mean, we all went to middle school and there is this you got to wear what everybody else wear and do what everybody else is doing. But I'm trying to drill on them like no, like be special, like I was a weirdo and in high school and I've always done things differently and I feel like the older you get every year, the more you're respected. And not that it's about being respected, but still, society responds to uniqueness, young creativity and um, yeah, man, there's too much uh, uniformity out there, like everybody. Like when I get in new york city or anywhere. That's not the South like. Even around here everybody looks the same, dresses the same, and I just come to life when I go to New York City and see just this blend of humanity and everybody doing their own unique thing. I just love it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, originality and the whole idea of being yourself. I mean, that's a lifelong pursuit. I can't speak for you, but I feel as though I'm still. I'm consistently amazed at how who I am continues to evolve and my understanding and connection to what is our true self, yeah, and that's something that doesn't just happen naturally. I think that probably is a product, I suspect, of being somewhat introspective and intentional. I mean, as creatives, we tend to spend a lot of time in our heads thinking about maybe ourselves or maybe what we're going to do with everything that's flowing through here. But I just wonder what it would take for the typical that sounds so condescending to say the average, typical person, you know, not folks like us?
Speaker 2:but that sounds so terrible to say there's a better way of framing that but just like how more of us we, the collective, we people could continue to spend time. Because those are the people to your other point. Those are the people who are most interesting to me, are the ones who are continuing to consider what am I doing here? Like what's really the you know? To your point about hey, you've got a dream, why aren't you, you know, pursuing it? You know, what are we doing here? Like what's the? Where's this heading? You know, as opposed to, well, this is the one way path that I'm on, and keep it between you know, 55 and 61 and you know, off we go.
Speaker 2:you know, I don't know what my point is. I think I have one, but maybe it'll come out in a moment, but I just there's tremendous value, I think, in being intentional. Actually, I'll ask you do you have, is there anything around your habits, routines, any practice that you have to spend time, you know, with yourself, continuing to get to know you know who you are today, as opposed to getting, maybe, stuck in identity that you assumed at some point in the past?
Speaker 3:Not necessarily a routine or practice. Necessarily a routine or practice, um, but I have realized, over the last two years especially, that obsessively learning is like the only path forward. Um, I think when you stop learning, that is the fastest path to burnout irrelevance, boredom, like so, like we're taught that you go to school, you learn your craft and then you go do your craft. You stop learning, like god knows so many artists in all genres, where they're I don't know how old you are, but I'm 47 in their 40s, especially 50s, they, they sell out under the sunset, usually against their will, but they become irrelevant, they become washed up, their old style, old work, and I think the only way to truly stay on top of your game is to always be a student. And the NFT. I should tell you a crazy story. So two years ago, when the NFs were popping and that was the thing I had this kid like keep pounding me. I was down in art basel, miami, and this kid kept uh, dming me. He's like, hey, let's get together and chat nfts. And I was like, hey, no, I have no injuries. They intimidate me and I don't want to. You know I I was like nope, I'm out. Actually, I tried it a little bit, no success, and I just gave up. So I was like I really don't want to. And then he just kept pushing me. So we get together and he explains something called generative code, which that's when it just exploded in my brain. In all these years of painting and doing photoshop layers, I instantly like just got it with with generative code. Generative code essentially is it's not ai. A generative code is like having a studio system explore all the combination of elements. For you it's an invisible studio system. And so I was like man, I could create, and I literally created nine, almost a thousand individual pieces of art. I've had our layers, canvas, polaroids, photoshop, ipad art, layers, canvas, polaroids, photoshop, photographs, like all this art. And I threw it into what he had told me about generative code and I created all this crazy art that has never in the history of the world been done before. And I made a collection. So I obsessively learned for like three months how to do all that release this collection.
Speaker 3:When NFTs were a thing that in two seconds made $700,000. Literally Two seconds, wow. We thought someone was wrong, we thought there was a technical glitch, but it had sold out that fast, wow. But then the story keeps going. So that opened up my nft journey and then I just started learning, learning, learning every day, and then I finally learned augmented reality, ar and vr and I started playing with all that stuff and anyway, I had a bunch more success with nfts but my um diving into ar.
Speaker 3:Then somebody was reminding me we're starting a tech company and they showed me what they were doing with tech and I brought all my knowledge of NFTs and AR to the table. I was like y'all should really be doing AR. And so they freaked out, brought me on as a partner, and so now I'm a partner in those tech company that is just exploded and we're now working with the biggest artists on the planet. Uh, truly like I mean, we have all the big country artists and pop artists. We now have nfl teams, major league baseball teams and nhl hockey teams and I'm a partner in this tech company. And it's all because, rewinding to the moment in Florida when this kid is like hey, you should really learn this stuff, and I'm like no, no, no, like most people when they're older are like no, that's for the kids, that's for the. You know, tiktok is for just teenagers dancing, and look at it now. It's like everything everyone's on tiktok and reels and all the things. Um, it's a very long way of saying that that that all taught me that.
Speaker 3:Oh, I just learned the new things and it changed my life yeah because I'm obsessively learning and so now I'm like, okay, moving forward, whatever it is, whatever it is, whatever the next AI, ar, vr, nft, whatever the thing is, I'm going to keep staying on the cusp of that before everybody else, so that I can just keep figuring it out and not become bored.
Speaker 2:I love that story for a lot of reasons.
Speaker 2:So, knowing your backstory and your trajectory, you know a little bit, you've dipped your pen in a lot of creative ink. You know you've done a lot of different things, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing you could have, at any point at different points along the way, sort of camped out and become more static with, like, all right, I kind of got a groove that would have paid the bills and taken care of things right indefinitely. So, to put that in the form of a question, I'm curious do you think it's a conscious choice that you made at some point along the way to say I'm going to be somebody who continues to evolve, or do you think that's just baked into your DNA? It's?
Speaker 3:baked into being off the charts. Atd, sure, yeah, and just generally curious. I mean, I'm always shifting. A lot of people do think that's purposeful, but it's really not. It's just. I think it's like actual extreme ADHD a lot of career switching and there's a ton of downside to it. We're talking about it right now as if it's this really cool, sexy thing, but I could probably point out more downsides to this than I could positives. There's a lot of regret with some of the things I've abandoned, things that I should have stuck with. You know, could have supported what I do now. So, yes, it's awesome and it's awful all at once.
Speaker 2:Right, right, yeah. But to your point about learning, though, too. I think that's such an important thing to realize is that there's so much opportunity for additional growth just laying out in the world like little Easter eggs just all over the place for us to just pick up. And everything contributes to everything. Everything leads to the next thing. Right, everything contributes. So you know things that you've.
Speaker 2:I think about it a lot as as picking up. Well, for me it's picking up literal tools and adding additional physical tools that are going to make different marks and create different effects, you know, with my work. But I also think about the idea of adding figurative tools to my sort of tool bag and not really knowing how or when they're going to reoccur, how they're going to be useful again, and then realizing I don't know if I've shared this in a podcast before, but I had this this um, I don't know if you remember this movie. It was called uh, it was an M night Shyamalan, I can't say this last name wrong. That movie signs oh, yeah, okay. So if you remember that there's a scene that, as the film sort of comes to an end, it's like the last dramatic scene where Joaquin Phoenix was a baseball player and his career, had he got injured or something like that, came to an end and that was, I think, a big part of his sort of character arc was just how he was depressed about not being able to pursue his dream of playing baseball. And the last scene culminates where they realize that and I'm probably butchering this, but this is how my memory is giving it back to me at the moment but is that these aliens are, they can only be, whatever killed or dealt with? Water, yeah, yeah. And that last scene where there's a glass of water and Joaquin Phoenix grabs a bat and is able to because he knows how to swing it swing away. Merrill hits a glass of water and is able to save, save his family.
Speaker 2:The point being, I don't know why this sort of triggered something for me, but the point is that we never know what little tools, skills, abilities, experiences, little nuggets of knowledge that we've sort of picked up along the way are going to be useful later. Yeah, absolutely. So. That's kind of a mantra, you know, for for me and other people that I enjoy being in dialogue with is just like there's. No, there's. I've never read a book and, and been worse for it, I've never, you know, had it, had it at an engaging conversation and not you never. But we just never know. It's kind of the point and we don't need to right. You don't have to have a plan with what you're going to do with something or oh, this is going to lead to right. It's very rarely, if ever, a linear path A goes to, b goes to. We were talking about assembling Ikea furniture earlier. It's not. Life ain't like that. Exactly it's not. If only life was just a assemble by number, you know, uh, swedish made uh.
Speaker 3:But if you just open up your mind to just like I've got to be curious, instead of saying no, that's not for me, especially when it comes to the arts and creativity, like, open up your mind, just try it, just do it, just jump into the new thing and give it a go and most experiences are so low stakes.
Speaker 2:What if you try something that doesn't work? Yeah, exactly it's okay, you're about right back where you were when you before you started. Yeah, um, yeah, I love that. So next quote I don't actually know how to pronounce jessica's last name, I don't know. I don't know who this? Is okay, yeah, do you happen to know what she does, or her?
Speaker 2:she's an illustrator illustrator okay fantastic, all right, so I should probably know that. Her quote the work you make while you're procrastinating on your work is the work you should actually be making. Yeah, I'm gonna read that again the work you make while you're procrastinating on your work is the work you should actually be making. Yeah, talk to us about that.
Speaker 3:So good, yeah, I know jessica, um, she's so talented but she nailed it. I mean, like, if you're over here just doing something out of your pure passion on the side, uh, and just whether it's doodles or art or wood making, like whatever you're doing like that should be. If that's what brings you joy, why not try to figure out how to make that your actual thing? And a lot of people would say, well then it removes the joy if I'm monetizing it or trying to, which that could be true. But I just can speak from experience.
Speaker 3:Like I'm now 25 years into just chasing I don't doodle on the side, like why I get to doodle professionally. I get to just constantly shift and try new things. And, um, there's never been a day that I've dreaded, uh, a monday, or I've never looked forward to the weekends, like this is where I want to be, what I want to be doing. And um, yeah, I mean if there's anybody out there that's listening and know they're doing that little fun thing on the side that they consider just a little whatever, like maybe that's the answer, but they're doing that thing on the side and saying I don't know what I'm going to do with my life. I think she's saying that it's right there. Yeah, it's the thing you're doing, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think there's obviously a lot of details like that thing might not be able to be monetized, but I, of those passions and some of those curiosities, if we're willing to cross other things off the list, you know, I mean, if I'm, this is true for me and I, I would, I would imagine probably most people, if we did a, if you do a true time audit, like a block by block, like where's where's the time, you know, really going, we all could find Where's the time really going. We all could find a couple hours here and there. Oh, without a doubt, 15 minutes here, right, without a doubt.
Speaker 2:To do more of the thing that really stirs our soul, whether we're fortunate enough, like you and I, to be able to do this full time, or whether it's just carving out a little. It doesn't, I mean and that's important too Like it doesn't have to become the thing that pays all your be great if it did. But either whether it's just something you do on the side that really just stirs your soul, or whether it's something that becomes, you know, something bigger. It starts in the same place and where it goes from there, you know, really isn't up to us anyway. For sure, yeah, for sure, I love it.
Speaker 2:Tom York, heard of him. What's your favorite, sorry, what's your greatest strengths? And I actually I want to say this so, um, so I listened to your book in preparation for our uh, for our, our conversation today, and I just want to share this for our audience. It's fantastic. It's called I'm possible and um. The audio version is read by you, which I also really appreciate because it's one of my most. One of my biggest pet peeves is when authors don't read their own words.
Speaker 1:Cause, even if there's a voice talent, that's like better at talk.
Speaker 2:It's just not. You know what I mean. So you did a great job of performing and reading it as well. So I'm anyway, I'll just share this as a as an aside. I was, um, when I was listening to your book. You opened with the story of your Tom York piece, which, if you're not following Jeremy, you should be, and so I'm listening to this actually on a run. I'm like man, I wish I could see this piece, and then you reposted it on your Instagram and I was just like wow, that's even better than you described.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, so super, super cool. So Tom said what's your greatest strength? It's that I don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, just again I found this morning when I was kind of digging around, and that's so Tom York to say. But I just relate to that. I think artists look at people young artists look at guys like me and you and girls and they think that we know what we're doing. And I really just don't. I mean, I'm always going in questioning myself. There's always insecurity, there's always doubt, there's always I suck. I mean last year, goodness gracious.
Speaker 3:Last year was probably the hardest year I've ever had in terms of self-doubt. I mean, I was in the gutter last year. I was like everything I do sucks. I don't know what I'm going to do for a living. All my work is gone and if he's crashed it's real bad and I don't know what I'm doing. And so, yeah, I just love that out of anybody. Tom York says that you know, and I just think it's a really important thing for artists to hear, because I think Chuck Close said, inspiration is for amateurs. The rest of us just show up and get to work. You know, like, even though I don't know what I'm doing, I just keep going. That doesn't stop me. Maybe that's the difference with people like you and I it's like, yeah, we don't know what we're doing. And we do have the doubt and the insecurity and all the things, but literally every day we just keep going 100%, keep throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks.
Speaker 2:In spite of those insecurities, doubts, fears, yeah, neuroticism in all its many forms yeah, showing up the next day to do something. So you do know, you do know one thing you're doing it's you're showing up the next day to do something yeah I mean that's, and I think that that's something that is.
Speaker 2:It's one of the most encouraging things. I don't remember when I when I first sort of heard this or or acknowledge this idea or this truth that nobody really knows what they're doing. The only difference is that some people have become really good at at convincing others that they do.
Speaker 3:That is for dang sure.
Speaker 2:Well, we're all making it up as we go. You know and I think that's one of the most encouraging things that that anybody could ever really fully grasp is like oh all the all, I pick, pick your favorite, whatever, the most inspirational figures in any domain. They woke up every day and were like, oh, we'll see how this goes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right you know, and so if one of the you know I mean, yeah, tom York Radiohead would be on my you know, certainly Mount Rushmore of creative heroes and the fact that this is going to be funny because we talked about this in an episode a couple episodes ago but just the whole idea of how often he they reinvented themselves over time To us we might think, oh, they were absolutely fearless and just said we're just going to do whatever we want. But if we read into this quote, we could probably surmise that with each album they're like well, this is what we feel called, this is what we feel passionate about putting out into the world. And thankfully they had obviously created some space for some success to have a label be like all right, sure, I mean, there's a little bit of caveat there, but the point is everybody has doubts and fears and everyone's experiencing, no matter where you're at in your trajectory and your career and whatever thing you were trying to progress in. Yeah, it's normal, it's just part of it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly Just all the kids out there, especially college students. Yeah, just got to embrace it and that's part of the journey you're signing up for.
Speaker 2:And continue to take action in spite of right, because there's that whole, you know, analysis or paralysis by analysis, where we can try to just continue to collect all the information and try, and, you know, chart a perfect course, and it's like good luck, you know. I mean, all I know is that I'm going to take a left from here and then we'll see what the next, where the next intersection brings me. You know what color the light is, you know. Next quote the best thing about a picture is that it never changes, even when the people in it do. The best thing about a picture is that it never changes Even when the people in it do. You take first crack at that, cause I love it Again.
Speaker 3:I just I've got a lot more quotes and I mentioned some of them today that that it's not like these are my favorite quotes of all time, like that one I literally found today. But that one hit me Cause that's what I do, is I take pictures of people every single day. Sometimes I think. I think my record is about 165 shoots in one day, literally 165 portrait sessions. Um, wow, and I might have to put that quote somewhere here in the studio, because a portrait really is this chapter marker, like if your life is a whole book, like we all love pictures and books to break up the text and to stop and look at something yeah like if your life is a book and it's going to have a few portraits scattered throughout, like a portrait just captures that, that chapter, whether it's a divorce, depression, the best day ever, like whatever it is it captures that and the story keeps evolving.
Speaker 3:And I just love that quote because that is what I'm doing. The picture is there forever, but your life, your story, is going to keep changing, could even change the day after that picture happened. But I love just that brief second of time that you're forever frozen in this portrait, which is why I do what I do.
Speaker 2:It's interesting because I think forgive me, I'm blanking on the name of the project that you started in taking portraits, the.
Speaker 3:Help Portrait yeah.
Speaker 2:Can you talk about that a little bit, and I've got a follow-up question to that. I think it's a beautiful project, thank, you.
Speaker 3:He has a real simple idea before social media uh, to take pictures of people in need and print them and give them away. That was it. That was the end of the agenda. No portfolio, no use, no self rewards for the photographers, just take pictures, give them away. Um, so we did it once in 2007, and then we used blogs at the time to spread the word, and the next year it was in 45 countries and then it became a global movement and we've taken over a million portraits since then and like 80, 90 countries, and so, um, I find that everybody wants to help, but a lot of times people don't know how to help and they don't necessarily want to help in ways that are not gifted or skilled at. Like, it's not everybody's thing to go serve food at the mission or to go clean a warehouse or whatever the thing may be, but if you tell photographers, use your camera and go to this thing and photograph people, it's just crazy what happened. It was a very simple idea that I chased um.
Speaker 2:That turned into this literal worldwide movement the power of portrait, though I'd actually like to. I've thought a lot about the.
Speaker 3:I mean so yeah, so I'm sorry, I kind of missed the question. Let me speak into that. So, yeah, we've. We have literally seen people walking the streets a year and two years later, still holding the framed portrait that they got.
Speaker 3:Um, there's this old, old story from like the 1800s about a war, uh, where people walking around naked they had nothing. Uh, where people walking around naked, they had nothing. There was no food, no water, no, anything, but somebody shipped a massive um cart of red lipstick and so all these women were walking around town. They had nothing. You know, there is the middle of war. They were hungry, they were tired, but this red lipstick gave them this massive sense of beauty, dignify, like I feel good, I at least have my red lipstick. And the same kind of holds true of what we do with Help Portrait, like we're still giving them that.
Speaker 3:They walk around being ignored, being spat spat on, being just looked down upon by society. So, for a brief moment, to give them this here here's who you really are, with your hair, makeup done in your shower. We're giving you new clothes. We're giving you all this new stuff, giving you professional lighting and showing you who you really are, like that this is your full self and so for them to hold on to that and be able to go get a job with it, which we've had done send it to their loved ones. They haven't seen in decades. We've seen that Like. It's so powerful. I mean hundreds and hundreds of stories that I could share from 13 years of doing this.
Speaker 2:It's crazy the power of just one image, though. Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a little time capsule. For sure, we, we we talked about this a little bit before we started rolling too but I think, especially when you think about, you know, grief, loss, the things that are left behind when the person you know no longer is yeah, that's your, no longer is, yeah, that's your brother's shirt, yeah, like that's. That's a. There's something to that little like this is this is. This moment will never happen.
Speaker 2:You know, you take a photo like that, that's it. That's, that's frozen in time, that's never gonna. You couldn't replicate it even a second later, at least not exactly you know and I think there's just something about having those little things to have a connection to. It's one of the things that I love about your work photography, you know, in general, just the ability to document an experience, a time and an energy.
Speaker 2:I mean that's something, too, you know. I think that the art of photography is capturing, you know, someone's energy, their mood, and the fact that you put as much of your heart and soul, maybe even more, into those portraits of the homeless that you do into the famous people that millions of people are going to see on the cover of magazines and album covers Like that's just really beautiful.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you, yeah, yeah, it's been an amazing thing to be a part of. Yeah, for sure it's neat.
Speaker 2:Let's talk. Let's close with this. This is something that you brought to the table and I, I'm, I'm, I'm interested in where this goes. But what's an artist, jeremy?
Speaker 3:I don't know why, but for some reason I've thought way too much about this question what is an artist? And a few years ago I finally came up with what I think is just like the right way to frame what an artist is. I think an artist is somebody that if they were the only person left on Earth with that will smith movie where he was the only guy on earth I forget what it's called um jew's not a little left to remember that I want to say I am robot, but that's not it.
Speaker 2:That's what I wanted to say it's not a robot no, it's something else.
Speaker 3:Anyway, if you're the only person on earth yeah, there's no one to see your work, there's no one to like your post, there's just no audience would you keep creating? If the answer is yes, I think you're an artist. Yeah, like, in other words, you have to do it. Yeah, it's a form of breathing. It doesn't matter what you're creating. If you have to create to survive, I think that I think that's an artist. Audience or no audience, that's who artists are.
Speaker 2:I agree with that, and I think that the term artist can be extended to really anything that involves a version of self-expression. People, whether they're aware of it or not, it doesn't really matter, quite frankly, whether it is a conscious thing that registers or not, there is expression. To that. There is something to be said for there's there's a, there's a, there's a personal I. I'm putting a little piece of me into this thing that I'm doing because I love doing it, because I would do it, whether anybody else was there to see it or go about it regardless. Yeah, agreed, that feels like a good place to end. Yeah, man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you so much for the time, of course, great to meet you and for everybody listening, definitely go check out Jeremy's work. Where can people find you?
Speaker 3:At Jeremy Cowart on Instagram and all socials on jeremycowartcom.
Speaker 2:Amazing. Thank you, brother. Thanks man Appreciate it. Yep, thanks man Appreciate it.
