Just Make Art
A conversation about making art and the artist's journey with Ty Nathan Clark and Nathan Terborg, two artists trying to navigate the art world, just like you.
In each episode, the duo chooses a quote from a known artist and uses it as a springboard for discussion.
Through their conversations, Ty and Nathan explore the deeper meaning of the quote and how it can be applied to the artists studio practice. They share their own personal stories and struggles as artists, and offer practical advice and tips for overcoming obstacles and achieving artistic success.
Whether you're a seasoned artist or just starting out, "Just Make Art" provides valuable insights and inspiration to help you navigate the creative process and bring your artistic vision to life. With their engaging and conversational style, Ty and Nathan create a welcoming space for listeners to explore their own artistic passions and learn from two artists working hard to navigate the art world.
Just Make Art
Art Inspiration. Things Inspiring Us. Sean Scully, Dana James and Jonathan Todryk.
Is turning 50 the new beginning you've been waiting for? Join us as we explore this exciting milestone and the possibilities it brings for personal reinvention and artistic growth. We dive into a lively conversation inspired by our listener, Brittany Clifford, who is contemplating a move from New York's art scene to Miami's vibrant landscape. Learn how to establish a new creative community by attending local gallery openings, connecting with fellow artists, and leveraging the power of social media.
Trusting your instincts is an art in itself, and we reflect on how spontaneity can lead to stunning creations. Inspired by William Blake's wisdom, "First thought is best in art," we recount studio stories where improvisation led to unexpected brilliance, like a serendipitous moment with resin and pink wood shards. We also share a moving encounter with Dana James' painting, underscoring the profound emotional impact and transformative beauty art can hold. This episode shines a light on the works of Dana and Jonathan Todryck, celebrating their artistic journeys and continuous pursuit of innovation.
Gratitude plays an essential role in nurturing creativity, and we draw inspiration from Nietzsche to emphasize its importance in the artistic process. Hear our personal anecdotes on how simple habits like journaling and meditation can foster a positive mindset and clear mental clutter. We'll guide you through the significance of "soul care," offering insights on maintaining creativity amidst life's demands. Whether you’re an artist on a similar journey or someone seeking inspiration, this episode promises a heartfelt discussion on art, gratitude, and the joy of creating.
Check out:
Brittany Clifford's art
Dana James art
Jonathan Todryk's art
Send us a message - we would love to hear from you!
Make sure to follow us on Instagram here:
@justmakeartpodcast @tynathanclark @nathanterborg
all right. So, ty, as we're coming off of a fairly dense three-part series on art and fear we were thinking of, that's not loose at all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't think it was dense, I think it was badass you screw it, let's just keep going.
Speaker 1:The whole idea with this was to keep it loose anyway, like self-editing as we go. Screw it, yeah, no, so we were just thinking about, let's be honest, something that was maybe just a little bit less preparation than going through an entire book highlighting our points, having a detailed outline. So this is a new type of episode that we're doing. We're calling this a quickie or a random episode, which is just a working title. We'll almost certainly find something better than that, but yeah, so we just wanted to do something where we've got some kind of reoccurring segments. We're going to get into some Q&A, we're going to talk about some things that have just kind of caught our attention, that are inspiring us, and then just share some takeaways, things that we've learned from our personal practice and things that could be potentially applied to others as well.
Speaker 2:But I have a question before we start, since it's loose. Yeah, it's just popped into my head. So I turned 50 last week. I think I shared that on the last episode, I can't remember. So does that mean I have to like start over? Does that mean I need to find a new me for the next 50?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, if you're planning on hitting triple digits, I would say it's probably overdue for you to reinvent, for you to reinvent yourself okay, okay, that's good to know. I need to take that into the studio then and figure some new things out I mean it will say for those of you that aren't watching us on youtube here uh ty is sporting a very fresh haircut, high and tight, that is definitely you know. It kind of screams like I'm not 50 yet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Doing my best to not I want to buck the trend of what happens after 50. So if I can reverse engineer everything, then I'm going to move in great directions.
Speaker 1:I love that for you. I mean, you got options too, because you got the full facial hair menu as well as a marvelous head of hair as well.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you you know menu as well as a marvelous head of hair as well.
Speaker 1:So from a look standpoint, you can reinvent yourself as often as you'd like.
Speaker 2:Well, maybe I'll move into sculpture and start getting some clay and doing some busts.
Speaker 1:I think you should. I think you should do it. Go back to high school.
Speaker 2:All right, let's jump into the mailbag. Here we go.
Speaker 1:So this is. We just got one question that we're going to dig into today, but a good reminder, too, for us to remind folks to. Hey, we love questions, we love doing Q&A. We've done a couple of just straight up Q&A episodes when we get enough sort of in the queue, but there's something whether it be a previous episode, something that you had a different takeaway or a different perspective on things that you want to throw in, or something that you're just genuinely curious about, or looking for us to give our A. Feel free to shoot that to us. Let's see. So DM us on Just Make Art on Instagram as well. As what's the feature, ty, right through the? Is it just on Spotify that people can do the comments?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think Spotify allows you to actually ask specific questions or comments through the platform, but you can also do it on YouTube as well.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, of course. Okay, got it.
Speaker 2:And then we check those regularly.
Speaker 1:Yes, we do, all right. So today's question comes from Brittany Clifford and I'll just go ahead and read it. Brittany writes hey guys, I'm a huge fan of the pod. No-transcript, ty. I'm going to go ahead and toss this one over to you because I know that you have helped others navigate this more than once through the program and I'm curious to hear your thoughts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I met Brittany Clifford through our great friend, Gianna Tassone. They were friends in New York, besties in New York and shared. I know Gianna used Britney's studio often when she was in New York working on stuff too. And yeah, Britney's got a big move. That is exciting but also nerve wracking when you do have a community in a New York. Right, this isn't like a small town in Nebraska. She's leaving. She's leaving the New York art scene.
Speaker 2:And it seems like anytime you have some flow or things are growing for you in a location art-wise, then you leave.
Speaker 2:You almost have to start over. You do have to start over. So when you get to Miami I mean you know this in New York when you go out to shows and you go out to things you rub elbows and you meet people, random people, you see, people you know, and it's just it's going to be that you need to figure out what galleries you may fit in work-wise as an emerging painter and start going to all those openings, get on the mailing list so you don't miss the openings and just get out and go look Instagram searching for hashtags Miami painters, miami artists, things like that and see if there's anybody you can connect with ahead of time. And also shoot me an email so I can introduce you to some friends that I have in Miami as well that are in the art scene there. So definitely shoot me an email or a message so that I can connect you to some people when you get there. But that's the big thing Just get out, go network, be busy, rub elbows, have coffee with people and start over Perfect.
Speaker 2:I love that I have no follow-up questions. Sweet, moving to a new location is inspiring, I think. I think it's scary when you do that, but it's also inspiring because you're moving into a brand new set of surroundings, of people, of feelings, of cultures, locations. Different places are different, the air is different, so it brings a whole new height of new ideas and new things into the studio, and I know that's something that you and I are always trying to capture Inspiration in the studio. How can I get some new things that just feed me, that excite me, that drive me each time in the studio? So I'd love to know if there's anything that has really jumped out to you or caught your attention lately that's been feeding your practice.
Speaker 1:So there was an art documentary that was recommended to both of us. I don't know if you watched it or not, did you? I have not yet, okay, yeah, so our mutual friend and a friend of the show, a previous guest co-host, eric Breisch, recommended this documentary to us. It was, I think it's about five years old I believe it came out in 2019, but it's called Unstoppable the Art of Everything and it's all about it. Features Sean Scully, features Sean Scully, and I will begin by saying that I'm not the biggest fan of his work. I think it's yeah, whatever, it just doesn't connect with me. It doesn't strike me personally, however, and so I actually told Eric that before I watched it, he said hey, whatever you think of his work, just give it a shot.
Speaker 1:I mean, there's a lot of interesting things about the art world and sort of the artist mentality. That's really fascinating, and, as a character study, I found it to be exactly that. It was really interesting to get a peek inside the mind of somebody who, I would say, has a very, if I can say this, atypical personality type from the stereotypical artist, and what I mean by that is he is on the extreme end of the spectrum of self-confidence. I mean, I think that if we think of it that way, right, there's a spectrum of self-confidence and self-doubt and most of us I think you and I probably fall squarely in this category vacillate back and forth between both extremes and probably land whatever, somewhere in the middle. I don't know that Mr Scully spends much time. He might dip below a nine, but most days he's at a 10 or a spinal tap. His amps go to 11. Like, yeah, and so it's just really interesting, like just just such supreme assuredness in his artistic vision and what he's trying to do. Again, setting what you think about you know his work aside, but that was just a really interesting takeaway for me.
Speaker 1:I'm going to share a quote from from the doctor that kind of exemplifies what I'm referring to. But he says I couldn't be discouraged the same way as Martin Luther King or Bobby Kennedy. They believe so much in what they believe they don't mind if they get shot, and I don't mind either, and he means that. So anytime you're comparing yourself to those types of individuals, you can kind of get a sense of where his self-image is at. But I just think it was really interesting in terms of you know the more that's actually sorry. I want to share this as well. This was. I pulled that quote from the Artnet article that Kenny Schachter wrote and he follows that quote up with. I can see the headline now artist gets shot for his take on stripes.
Speaker 2:So if you know, Kenny Schachter, that's a very you know. Yes, can I add real quick yeah, because that quote by Sean Scholey is a. It's a pretty, I mean, yeah, it's extremely confident, but it's also, yeah, martin Luther King and Bobby Kennedy were so steadfast in what they believe. Nothing was going to stop them from saying what they were going to say, from preaching what they were going to preach, or so it's like, if you're going to shoot me, shoot me, I don't care, I'm still going to continue with my message. And I think that's what Sean's saying is Ty, nathan, everybody else, you may not like my work, but I don't care, I'm going to keep making it. So give me your best shot, it's not going to matter.
Speaker 2:And, of course, kenny, if you don't follow, follow Kenny Schachter on Instagram. You have to. He is one of the most satirical, hilarious comedic artists out there. Who does fantastic out there? Who does fantastic? One of the first digital artists out there. But also his sense of humor and his wit and his ability to write and narrate things are just fabulous, so that quote is taking the piss out of the art world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. He is amazing, yeah.
Speaker 2:So this talking about shooting and getting shot just reminded me of the Chris Burden performance shoot in 1971 at the F Space Gallery in Santa Ana, where he had a friend and shoot him with of people always getting shot in America, right Cowboys, tv Westerns, all these things but also people getting shot in war and he wanted to know what it felt like. So for performance he had his friend shoot him in the arm from 15 feet away and he documented it by film, by photo. We'll put some photos up in the YouTube episode so you guys can see it. But also that's one of the things I saw in art school that we talked about was Chris Burden in a postmodern theory class and we studied Chris Burden at length and his documentary is wonderful. It's absolutely incredible and he's definitely out there, but it's worth a watch for sure.
Speaker 1:So, on the spectrum of self-confidence and self-doubt, I think that if we think about nature versus nurture, versus what we can control today, I mean, a lot of these things are character traits and of course the documentary goes into his backstory, and growing up very poor on the streets, a lot of things obviously contributed to him having this sort of fighter mentality. That's goes into his backstory and you know, growing up, you know very poor, you know on the streets, like a lot of things obviously contributed to him having this sort of fighter mentality. That's he's carried with him throughout life. So some of these things are sort of like part of our, you know, mental and emotional DNA. But to the extent that we can control these things, my big takeaway was just like how much can we channel our inner Scully-esque level of self-confidence and how can we stack the decks in our favor to spend more time on that end of the scale than the opposite? Because the opposite extreme, of course, is being mired in self-doubt and fear and just paralyzed by all of the things that prevent us from making our best work. So I was thinking about this and there was a quote that came up or an idea that came up, and I wasn't sure who the quote was attributed to. Apparently, it's. William Blake said the first thought is best in art, second in other matters. First thought is best in art, first thought best. Yeah, so that's just, you know. One example, I guess, is I think about my own practice of you know, when I am in that sort of flow in confidence, it's the first thing that comes to mind like yeah, let her, let her rip. You know, as we love to quote pretty much every episode now from from Holland.
Speaker 1:But I had a, I had a moment of the day in the in the studio, and I kind of smiled because I was talking about the documentary. But you know, I use a lot of multiple layers of resin in most of my pieces and I was thinking about how, you know, typically the product that I use the most cures in about 30 minutes or so, and so one of the things I've started doing is mixing up more than I need. You know, for the main, whatever piece that I think, and then I just carried around to, for the main, whatever piece that I think, and then I just carried around to all of the works in progress and you know, most cases I've got like maybe 10 minutes before it starts to really become, you know, unworkable. And so I had this moment where I grabbed some different pink, pink wood shards that I had laying around and just put, you know, had some resin, put them in a piece, doubt it in the moment, but again, like all right, that stuff's going to cure and and, hey, I can always cover it up or do something with it anyway. But it became one of my favorite moments, you know of, of this piece, but just getting into that, like first thought best, just, you know, go for it. And, um, just one example of a way that one might consider, you know, putting that more self-confident mentality into action consistently.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what do you got? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the other day I was A couple of days ago, maybe it's two I was Got on Instagram for a minute to put a piece up and my friend, dana James, wonderful female New York painter, had a new piece up and it literally stopped me in my tracks Like it moved me to tears instantly. You know and this is something that is something I love about art, because this doesn't happen all the time, like it happens at times, but it doesn't happen all the time where I see a work and it just right to the heart, like just open my soul up into this moment that absolutely grabbed me and emotionally moved me to tears and I just sat there looking at it and studying it and I put it here in our document so that and I know that you saw it too the other day but there was just something about the colors, the depth, her composition, the way that she has hard lines and hard shapes, but then the just that blue brush stroke across the middle with the way that the yellows and the oranges kind of move and flow around it and then it opens up to the negative space at the top that has just little bits and pieces floating it. I mean, I'm getting emotional right now. It's just such a beautiful, stunning work of art and I've known Dana for a few years now.
Speaker 2:She actually came to Texas for a residency program and I shot her a message years ago and said hey, you're only an hour and a half from me, can I take you to lunch? And she was like come on head down. So I went over, spent time with her, got to learn just kind of the way she works, how she creates her work in the studio. We spent time in the studio, then we went and grabbed barbecue and just hung out for the afternoon and so watching her progression over time, it's just, it's a beautiful piece. I'm excited for you all to see it and you definitely need to be following her. I'll have the Instagram handle in the video as well, and in our, in our show notes too, with the everything else we talk about. But it's definitely a piece that I mean. It just it's beautiful, it's incredible.
Speaker 1:It's called a piece that I mean it just it's beautiful, it's incredible. It's called this Lovely Little Wish is the title. I want to just make a little note that that's a great example of you doing the thing that you answered in the previous question of just reaching out right, Cold calling somebody or whatever, cold DMing somebody, saying, hey, love your work, would love to meet and talk art. Right, this piece is phenomenal, and I was thinking about it because when I saw that you had dropped this in the outline, I had seen this as well and spent some time with it too. I don't know Dana personally, but I follow her on Instagram. I think this is just one of the best examples I've seen in quite some time of just a perfect balance of intention and control, with sort of those intuitive you know free loose marks that I've, that I've seen. I mean it's got both and the balance between them is just absolutely stunning. Yeah, yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2:Everything within it works, yeah, in a very emotional, powerful and beautiful way. Yeah, well done, dana. So one more emotional, powerful and beautiful way. Yeah, well done, dana. So one more thing Another friend of mine that I follow pretty regularly, jonathan Todrick, who's a North Dallas painter, has some new work that he's been working on, and I was sitting here and I was going, gosh, there's so many great things about these pieces.
Speaker 2:I was sitting here and I was going, gosh, there's so many great things about these pieces. And it's almost as if Ron Gorchov, who's currently at Vito Schnabel Gallery, frank Stella and Ellsworth Kelly had a baby. That's where I feel like if those three got together and they had a love child, this is what would have came out. And I'm not an artist who typically loves shapes or explosions behind me. I just did the iPhone explosion. I wasn't going to see it.
Speaker 2:I don't usually love shapes and this is something I've talked about with other friends who will have shapes and paintings and things.
Speaker 2:And I'll say I'm not the best judge of this because it's not something I gravitate towards, but for years Jonathan has really been playing with in his paintings, moving from really big gestural or small gestural pieces to really deep blends, almost Rothko-esque type blends, and takes into things, and then he'll move in and, without different shapes, playing with all these different ideas in his work.
Speaker 2:Well, he recently just took these painting forms that were in painting and started actually taking them from 2D to three-dimensional objects on the wall, and I just think they're fantastic, and that's somebody for me that I don't usually gravitate towards shapes or things, but now that they've become sculptural, they're just wonderful to me, and every time I see one that he puts up, it's just absolutely captivating to me, and so I just wanted to give him a nod because it's definitely inspired me.
Speaker 2:And I think this is what we're trying to do as artists, and this is what I'm always trying to do is how do I continue to gravitate to the next idea, like we've talked about, following the threads that are let loose in all of our work and continuing them on to new things, new ideas, exploring those ideas and then finding what really works and then running with it. And I think Jonathan has really nailed it here and really gone from all these different threads that were loose in his other work and then took them to the new idea and is really starting to develop it, and it's absolutely inspiring to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know Jonathan personally, but I can imagine that taking that leap from the two dimensional to the three dimensional must've been a big, a big decision, because there's a lot of a lot that goes into, you know, making a transition like that Right.
Speaker 2:Yep, making the transition and then making it work, yeah, like making it actually work on the wall. So well done, jonathan Fantastic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I hadn't seen these die until you introduced them to me as we're preparing for the episode, but one of the things that really caught my attention and really intrigues me is just the imperfections in the shapes. You know some of these. You know the circular, you know shapes take this sort of angular turn that really, really pulls the eye in, and, of course, I'm a sucker for texture, so it looks like they're almost like a stucco type. You know texture on them as well, which is just really interesting as well.
Speaker 2:Well, and Jonathan, over the years he's played with cement, he's played with all kinds of different things on top of canvas and on top of things and he's really taken, honestly, the last five years of his work with his blends, where he has things that are going, they go from dark to light, the way they blend and they've got that rough feel to the outside.
Speaker 2:And he's taken all those ideas, the last five, six years of ideas, and wrap them up into these pieces. And I think the next thing for Jonathan, just in my eyes as somebody who looks at work, a lot is really now nailing the lighting, so that shadow now becomes a really big part of how those pieces are displayed in a gallery, in a space. And so I think anytime you move from a two-dimensional painting to even a three-dimensional wall object, now lighting is going to take an even larger turn. And this is something that our good friend Alison Hudson and I have talked about for years now, that how important lighting is for her work, because her work is delicate. It's wonderfully delicate in a way that if the lighting is not perfect, you will miss the details within the work and behind the work and what it does on the wall with shadows. So I think that's always. The next big step is start really playing with lighting and how you want those to push, pull, move, share the wall or come completely off the wall, depending on your lighting.
Speaker 1:So, moving on to our next segment that we are working title what I learned. We can probably do better than that as we go here, but what am I learning? What am I learning?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, learn assumes that we can probably do better than that as we go here. But these are just. What am I learning?
Speaker 1:What am I learning?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah yeah, learned. Assumes that it's locked in Learning Ding ding ding.
Speaker 1:Forever. So, yeah, these are just lessons, takeaways from our practice. What's the work been teaching us? One of the things that I wanted to share that I've been really reflecting on recently is just the importance of identifying that there's a time to explore and a time to execute, and as I approach right at about the two-month mark before the work's got to be shipped to Munich, I'm getting in that very much execution mode because that's the necessity of things, and so I think I was just thinking a lot about, you know, the difference between you know really getting in tune with a single piece, just going on a journey, getting lost together and having that be.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, it's getting dark out, the day's over and we've just been just you and me, hand in hand, you know, trying to find our way, versus you know kind of bouncing around and fulfilling the necessary tasks when working on multiple pieces throughout the day. One of the things that I found to be useful in show prep is having self-imposed deadlines, just different benchmarks along the way, and so this may have been a bit ambitious, but one of my the upcoming one anyway, deadline that is is to get six pieces done before my brother comes in town in about a week here. We're going to go go camping up North and get some time away and there'll be a little bit of a break. But one of the things that I found to be really useful in this sort of execution phase is a good old fashioned spreadsheet, which I'm not super inclined to uh, to use, but I spreadsheet which I'm not super inclined to use, but I have found that it's very helpful in sort of just laying everything out and identifying. So I've kind of got my routine as I get into this more production-based mode, not production, but just the volume of work that I'm aiming to get completed.
Speaker 1:So doing my morning walkthrough, sitting down with a computer, I mean I counted up yesterday I've got about 13 pieces that I'm actively working on right now, and so just the takeaway for me is that it's important to and I've had to learn this over time it's important to identify that there is a feeling that I'm chasing, when I'm going after that sort of dramatic transformation over the course of the day. There's a certain feeling that I and I think we, get from having that sort of fulfillment of this happen today on this particular piece, and it started here and it went all the way over here and that's exciting, it's fun, it's fresh, but also acknowledging that there is a time for that sort of like one foot in front of the other, brick by brick approach, you know, which often results in more. For me, anyway, more considered work, one of the things I learned we've talked about this in previous episodes, but you know we've discussed the value of sitting with the work that we've completed and really you shared a great story about this in the last episode. But identifying like, oh, I really love that, what do we like, what do we not like, which threads do we want to pull and carry them forward.
Speaker 1:And so I was looking back at a couple pieces that I had done for the previous show and I remembered when they were done they were early in that sort of season or that sort of phase for that particular show and I was reflecting back on how, for whatever reason, the way that they were laid out. These were pieces that were made over dozens of little micro sessions, not to get too specific, but a lot of. You know I mentioned the resin moment before placing a lot of different clues and bits from a variety of different materials and on any one day. This is the point, on any one given day it might be, you know, one teeny little moment that gets added and that day, that moment of just like plopping that little thing on there that takes up less than 1% of the total piece or whatever it might be, isn't much. But the cumulative effect, that sort of again brick by brick mindset of building things up over time, is really valuable.
Speaker 1:So I guess just the takeaway for me is just paying attention to what works and creating the habits and the systems that reinforce them. I do not love sitting down in front of my laptop really for much of anything, especially to lay out like here's all the things I'm doing on. But I found it to be a very useful step in the process to be able to say all right, like yesterday I touched and did something to, I think, seven or eight different pieces. None of them gave me that sort of excitement or that rush or that feeling necessarily, but the cumulative effect over time is extremely powerful. So, yeah, just being aware of what works and leaning into those little habits and routines that reinforce those things, I think is really valuable. How about you, ty? What's your practice been teaching you? Thanks for asking.
Speaker 2:Nathan, my pleasure. I mean things have been so wild for me the last summer. I mean I complain about it every episode we're on this summer just how hot it is in the studio. So I've been doing a lot of small works and I did them to apply for an exhibition in New York. I got one of the small works in exhibition in New York and then one at a small museum here in Waco. And then yesterday I went I'm going to do some more and so I cut 20 small canvases and I started working on 20 small works yesterday, just thinking through ideas for the big project that I'm going to start pretty soon, which, turning 50, really makes you sit and think about life it's a monumental age to hit and kind of thinking about the past and where I'm going and where I've been, and I decided I'm going to do a body of work titled 50 Works for 50 years, and so I started just journaling, as you and I do regularly.
Speaker 2:I started journaling places, all the places that I've lived, and memories from those places. So smells, sights, people, music, songs, tastes, even like little things, like ice cream with my parents and triple malted crunch ice cream that I would get when I was young at Thrifty Ice Cream in Sacramento, california, like just little things like that, that, because all of those little things bring in different feelings and different times, and so while I've been journaling that for ideas for creating actual pieces, I've been going through and looking at old work and looking at threads, those loose threads, things. I think I can carry on to new ideas. But then I had this crazy brainstorm of actually traveling to all these locations and like a 10 or 20 day kind of road trip where I went to all the places where I grew up and where my grandparents lived and did a. It would be the entire state of California. So kind of going up to Northern California, working my way down and filming it and writing in those areas and spaces and writing poetry and creating thoughts and ideas from each of those locations.
Speaker 2:I probably wouldn't go to China or Budapest or Romania which I would love to, but that cost gets a little high but then using that to really create more of a story behind the 50 works and possibly create little bits of short documentary type ideas behind how I'm creating the work, why I'm creating it and what's going into it. So I've kind of been really kind of working on those things. And then, obviously, dana and Jonathan's work this week gave me that even little jolt of inspiration of, okay, let's go, we've got to catch up to them. They're doing some big things right, pull that competition head out of. Okay, they're moving on, I need to keep moving on, I need to keep growing, let's go, let's do this. And then rejection. I shared that with you this morning and I've been sharing it with a few friends.
Speaker 1:I just want to put a little plug in, for you know you could go full Sean Scully and get yourself a PJ and just fly you know wherever, wherever you want. No, I love your 50 for 50 idea. I will say this I thought that I was nostalgic, um, and then I got to know you and I'm not even close on the uhism around nostalgia and places, people, things. I love the way you incorporate that into your work, so I'm excited to see what you do with that.
Speaker 2:Well, and the funny? I think I told you this the other day. The funny thing is is I create playlists right For all the work that I make all the bodies of work, create playlists right For all the work that I make all the bodies of work. And so I thought, okay, I'm going to make a playlist of the best albums from every year I've been alive Like the ones that I would really like.
Speaker 2:And so I sat, I got on the couch the other day in our library, at the house, in our reading room, and I started on 1974. And so after about three and a half hours I went this is ridiculous, that's an album for 50 years, and if that just took me three and a half hours to research the top albums of different genres for 1974, and then I added in a Spotify playlist all the ones that I really like, right, I will be 75 by the time I complete that playlist. So I ended up going a different direction and I have a playlist of music that is very inspirational to me. It doesn't fit the years, but it's that music that really just gives me, it just does something emotionally, and so I'm going to work from that. And then I have an all-time favorites playlist on Spotify. That is all of my favorite songs from my entire life that I accumulate over time, and so I'll be creating from both of those, but anyways, yeah, I feel like I cut you off.
Speaker 1:You're about to share something else.
Speaker 2:Yeah I was going to say. And then rejection at times can be inspiring for me and helps me learn some things, because there was a residency that I applied for that I really, really wanted. And now I've learned not to have big expectations, because you can really let yourself down and I am a four on the Enneagram. So putting really big expectations on things and not getting them can send me into a really dark place for a while. And I found out this morning that I was not shortlisted for the residency and you know, I sat there for a minute and I was really bummed. And it's okay to be bummed, it's okay to be down we don't want to wallow in it for a month, but it's okay to go down. What? Why would I? Now?
Speaker 2:Artists, subjective so the people choosing the artists right, they're going to choose. Hey, I really, this art really speaks to me and this artist, we feel like we can really invest in them, et cetera, et cetera. And so I kind of went through that in my head and then I, you know, I got really frustrated and went what? 600 hours supplied? How am I not better than all 600 artists? I kind of had that thought in my head.
Speaker 2:You know as well, which is that Sean Scully moment where I'm like are you kidding me out of 600? I wasn't the best on there. And then you go. You know what I'm going to take that comment and go well, maybe I was 599, which means I've got that many artists to pass up and get in the studio and work harder than and do more, and so that's where I've been really pushing inward and saying well, now you just got to be better for the next time you apply, let's make that work jump. So the next time you apply, maybe they go oh, he applied last time. Holy crap, look at the jump in his work from last year. Yeah, we need to take a chance with him.
Speaker 1:I think the I really want to highlight what you did with that, with that feeling that this is a. It's a great example of something we've certainly talked about before, but just like you didn't I mean you you sat in as long as you are you four with a three or four to five when on the Enneagram.
Speaker 2:I don't remember. You have to ask me and you have to ask my wife. She knows she's the Enneagram expert.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm going to guess three, but um, I, uh, I'm a three with the four wing. So anyway, for those of you that are familiar with the Enneagram, but it's interesting Anyway, the the the point there. You didn't just sit in it and and feel the feels and let that slow you down. You ultimately were able to channel that into useful fuel to get to work right. Yeah, we're all going to face rejection. We're all going to have those moments and those feelings.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, so you have developed the habit of doing something with it Is that something you think you've always had, or is that something you think you've had to learn over time? No, it's learned. It's very learned.
Speaker 2:Because I used to. In the Enneagram you talk about your shadow self, which is the false self. You have your true self and your false self in the Enneagram when you're at your best, when you're at your worst, and so I used to just wallow in it so I would fall into very, very deep fits of depression and unhealthy ways and channel it in unhealthy ways and so. But I've definitely learned, and part of that learning is talking about it. So called, my wife talked to her instantly because she was excited, so we'd had to move overseas for 15 months if we got it. So we were kind of thinking through how that would work and that stuff, and so she was, of course, bummed for me how that would work and that stuff. And so she was, of course, bummed for me.
Speaker 2:But then I, I called, uh, my friend Kasia Krakica and I sent her a message on Marco Polo and my friend Vino and Gianna Tassone, and then talk to you as well. So I vented to my friends in a healthy way. Not terribly, it was like gosh, I really wanted this, I'm really bummed, but okay, I got to work harder. Now I need to step this up. But I had to let it out to multiple people and I think that really helped me breathe. Yeah, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:No, I love that. Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. That's a great segue into. I've got one little takeaway. Um, that will, that will close with. But just what to do with things, you know, when they come up. There's a quote that I've really been spending a lot of time with, to Nietzsche quote. I feel like we've quoted Nietzsche like in the last six episodes running, but this one's just perfect. It's, and most people have probably seen it already, but the essence of all beautiful art, all great art, is gratitude. The essence of all art is gratitude. I'm shortening it and I don't know. There are a number of different interpretations and I'm not. We don't need to spend, you know, 30 minutes dissecting this, but for me, the takeaway is just the more time that I can spend in gratitude, like, oh, I mean, goodness, we get to do this, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1:Whether it's whatever, whatever you are, our dear listener, whatever your situation is, whether it's, you know, full-time or just here and there or once in a great while, like we, we have the ability, the luxury of, of making art which we could also argue is is, you know, for most of us a necessity to get some of those things out. But just the more that I can get back to that place, the more that we I'll speak for both of us can get back to that place of gratitude of like, wow, I mean, this is just like we get to do this. You know, this is a it's such a, it's such a tremendous, you know gift, such a tremendous, you know blessing to be able to be able to you be able to do that. And there are a couple of things that, for me, are fundamental, especially as I get into. You opened up a vein, I will as well.
Speaker 1:There seems to be a reoccurring theme every time I'm preparing for a show, which is oh shit, this is going to suck, Nothing's working. You know what I mean. And and it and it's just because there is that, that hard deadline, right, like what. In the absence of that, it's like ah, you know, it's the work's moving along and whatever. But you know, when there is a hard stop to like hey, this stuff needs to be created up and it's got to get through customs and blah, blah, blah, like it's, it's gotta be done'm tired, when something's not working, when I'm frustrated, getting back to that like hey, trusting in the process, getting back to gratitude, is so, so huge.
Speaker 1:So for me, what that looks like in terms of just like the daily habits is journaling. I had to refresh my stock of Moleskine so I got a couple more of these I had for a while. I had like seven or eight different like journals that were like not completely full, sort of floating around that I'd have to like dig up and find so again, just like making it easy and removing the barrier entry to be able to do that consistently. So one at the studio here and one you know at home. But also, just like you know, meditation. You know we've talked about this, you know before as well, but I actually pulled a quote. I've mentioned this book a bunch of times, I feel like on the podcast this um catching the big fish by David Lynch.
Speaker 1:But I wanted to read a quote and that really just brings us home in terms of, you know, meditation specifically for the creative. Uh, this is from page 99. If you've got the book, it's such an easy read because there's just little little minis. I'm going to read an entire section of the book, that's that's like a paragraph and a half, but this is titled a tower of gold. So he writes how does meditation get rid of negativity? Picture it this way you are the empire state building. You've got hundreds of rooms and in those rooms there's lots of junk, and you put all that junk there. Rooms, and in those rooms there's lots of junk, and you put all that junk there. Now you take this elevator, which is going to be the dive within, and you go down below the building. You go to the unified field beneath the building pure consciousness, and it's like electric gold. You experience that, and that electric gold activates these little cleaning robots. They start going, they start cleaning the rooms. They put in gold where the dirt and junk and garbage were. These stresses that were in there, like coils of barbed wire, can unwind, they evaporate, they come out. You're cleaning and infusing. Simultaneously. You're on the road to a beautiful state of enlightenment.
Speaker 1:He's such a great writer. I just love the way he thinks and puts different ideas. But I thought that was worth sharing. I just think it's so true. I mean, there's so many different thought goblins that just take up residence and fill up these rooms with junk, as he puts it. And so having that practice I mean again those two things for me journaling and meditating when I'm down, when I'm depressed if I can set aside 20 minutes, I can do both of those things in 20 minutes. They are undefeated, one or the other or both. To get back to that place of gratitude and to be able to create from a place of abundance rather than scarcity, it's huge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, those are soul care moments that we talk about a lot, and the reason we talk about a lot is because it's so important. You need to do those things. One of my artists in my program currently we were talking about soul care and just what do you need to do to breathe deeply and feel alive? When you have a job that requires a lot of hours, that's very stressful, and all you want to do is make art, yeah, and you just don't have the time to do it. You've got to find moments to, like she did yesterday went out on the beach in Chicago and walked into the water. You know what I mean. Like went into the lake and felt the water and then collected things to use in her artwork while she was out there, you know, on the lake, and so it was like just that. Those moments can help you to refocus, reevaluate. But also you know that there's a difference between a deep breath. When everything is fine and you're not stressed and you don't have pressure, you can really feel it in your lungs. You're breathing from down, deep within, not just from up. Here you're breathing your full diaphragm breathing, and then, when you're really stressed and you do that, you can feel it's kind of a shorter breath. It just just feels kind of uncomfortable. And that's what soul care really does. In a picture of what it does, it makes everything around you feel like a really deep, clean breath, with no pressure. So go out, do something.
Speaker 2:What do you need for soul care, artists? What is it that you? For me, it's just going and sitting at a coffee shop, sometimes with a book and a cup of coffee, and just sitting and just writing. For me, writing, like Nathan, journaling, writing poetry. I write a lot of poetry being outside, just observing people, observing nature, and just writing poetry. That makes me a new person, makes me a new person almost instantly sometimes. So, whatever it is for you, go do it, go find it, find those moments to do that. It's important. I don't know about you.
Speaker 1:Ty, but it's it's really hard for me to to do those. It's hard for me to set down the sword, you know, and stop fighting and just be. You know I we've talked about the Enneagram, so I'll reference it again, like that's part of the sort of achiever mindset that is the the whatever. My inherent wiring is as a, as a three is like keep pushing, keep pushing. You know, when I'm in that false self, I'm believing the lie that I am only okay, that my identity lies in what I do not. You know who I am, and so when I'm in that stressful place, my nature is to just keep grip it even tighter and keep pushing and keep trying to make something happen, as opposed to just taking a breath, taking a moment. I mean the ROI. The return on investment for these very small little things is tremendous, but we have to do them. I think that pretty much wraps. You got anything else for us?
Speaker 2:Yes, no, I was just going to say in closing. Yeah, I was going to say in closing what's inspiring you? Let us know. We want to know. Yeah, let us know on Instagram. Share a picture or a piece of art that inspires you with us on Instagram. Or let us know what's inspiring you lately, what's driving you in the studio, what's something you've come across that's made you just go wow, like it did for me with Dana James piece. Like what is it? We want to know. We love seeing new things and learning what's inspiring everybody else. So, holler at us, holla, okay, all right.
Speaker 1:See you next time.
Speaker 2:Have a good week, bye, bye, love it time.
Speaker 1:Have a good week. Bye, bye, love it, love it. Like you said, I love it, love it, but I didn't, I didn't feel it, so maybe I'll just. I'll just close that love it love it fucking love it, dude.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. Oh, what, what, what, what, what, what.
