Just Make Art
A conversation about making art and the artist's journey with Ty Nathan Clark and Nathan Terborg, two artists trying to navigate the art world, just like you.
In each episode, the duo chooses a quote from a known artist and uses it as a springboard for discussion.
Through their conversations, Ty and Nathan explore the deeper meaning of the quote and how it can be applied to the artists studio practice. They share their own personal stories and struggles as artists, and offer practical advice and tips for overcoming obstacles and achieving artistic success.
Whether you're a seasoned artist or just starting out, "Just Make Art" provides valuable insights and inspiration to help you navigate the creative process and bring your artistic vision to life. With their engaging and conversational style, Ty and Nathan create a welcoming space for listeners to explore their own artistic passions and learn from two artists working hard to navigate the art world.
Just Make Art
From Apathy to Introspection in Art: Lessons from Rick Rubin and Patti Smith
The episode explores the importance of creating art for oneself rather than seeking outside validation. Through insights from influential figures like Rick Rubin and Patti Smith, it emphasizes the need for genuine expression, resilience amid challenges, and setting clear goals for the creative journey.
• Rick Rubin advocates making art for oneself
• Reflecting on the year highlights periods of apathy
• The importance of setting micro-goals for artistic progress
• Patti Smith’s insights on artistry without audience expectations
• William Burroughs on maintaining a good reputation in art
• Embracing life’s challenges as part of the creative process
• Building networks and collaborating with other artists
• Encouragement to celebrate small achievements
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The only advice I would have would be to not listen to anyone and to do what you love and to make things that you love, whatever it is. Make, make your favorite things, be the audience. You be the audience. Make the thing for you, the audience. It doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks, and if you have to get a job to support yourself so that you can make your art, that's fine. You can't make art with someone else in mind. I don't believe. I don't believe it can be good.
Speaker 2:So that was Rick Rubin. A lot of you know his voice. A lot of you have read his book that he put out a few years ago, the Creative Act A Way of being A fantastic book. I've read it, gone through it a few times. Really simply written, nothing, really difficult, just really incredible sound advice from one of the greatest music producers in the history of music who has touched on numerous and numerous different genres of music, and I wanted to just share that as I'm looking at 2025, this new year that we're in, and reflecting on 2024 and setting up some milestones and things that I would love to chase and go after this next year. And so I came across that on YouTube just going through a bunch of different things, and I'm going to share some other fun advice from some famous people coming up.
Speaker 2:But, as I was thinking back on 2024 for myself man vulnerability coming your way right now from me and I feel like it was the most apathetic year I have had in my entire life from numerous levels. And I don't know I think I've talked about this a little bit in the cast that maybe it was turning 50 and just kind of reflecting on life. I don't know what it was. But as artists, we are going to constantly have these moments of apathy. I like to think of them more as apathy than creative block. I'm not a believer in creative block. We can become apathetic in our creating and that leads to moments of staleness or trying to figure out what to do and things don't come out. And so looking back on this year is like, okay, what did I achieve? What did I accomplish? Right, we need to do that.
Speaker 2:As artists, we need to look back on our year. We need to look at the work we made or didn't make, the things we really want to do, the big dreams we had for that year that maybe we just couldn't get to Now. This is a long game. Everybody remember that. This is a long, long, slow game, and so we can't set these milestones or goals or achievements that we want to reach right, name it whatever you want to and look back in disappointment when we don't reach them. If we're trying, okay, let me get that straight If you are trying, if you're not trying and you're just sitting around, well, nothing's going to happen. But if you're trying and those things aren't happening now, you need to look back and go okay, how can I improve on? How can I be better than how can I use my time more wisely?
Speaker 2:And so the reason I wanted I played that Rick Rubin um audio was because what is he talking about? Doing what we love, right, like doing what we love more than anything and investing ourselves in that, and us being the audience us, me, myself, yourself being the audience for what you're making, and not thinking about the outside world and thinking about those other things, but making the work. We're making it for us. Then, in the hopes when it's strong enough or we're happy with that finished product, we put it out into the world. And I love what he says when he says do what you need to do to make the art. Do what you need to do. What do you need to do to have the ability or the financial capability to make the art you want to make?
Speaker 2:I was making a list today of things. I was going back through the Artist's Way by Julia Cameron and I was doing some of the exercises, and one of the exercises was what are five things you would dare to do if you had the ability to do it financially? What would they be? So I wrote them down and then it was. The next question was what are some of the things you did when you were 20 that you love to do? Write five of those things down. Now, fast forward to being 65. What are the things that you have you love to do? Right Five of those things down. Now, fast forward to being 65. What are the things that you have the ability to do then? And then it kind of had you go back and forth between 20 and 60 and all these things and looking at if you had the money things you used to do that you love to do all those things.
Speaker 2:What do you need to do to make the art? I have plenty of artist friends that have part-time jobs, full-time jobs, two jobs, three jobs or, as Jerry salt says, they have a sugar mama or a sugar daddy. Right, I have a mentorship program that I use to help pay for my studio costs and things and I also have a sugar mama. I'm not afraid to admit that. I'm very blessed that my wife has built a business that has become very successful and I have the ability to make art full time and also teach other weekends and I made art late at night and all those things. But don't make art with someone else in mind. Make your art, make what you want to do and make a good name. And I want to play an incredible clip, one of my favorite clips, from an interview with one of my heroes, my absolute heroes Patti Smith, the singer, songwriter and poet Patti Smith.
Speaker 3:A writer or any artist can't expect to be embraced by the people. I've done records where it seemed like no one listened to them. You write poetry books that maybe 50 people read and you just keep doing your work because you have to, because it's your calling. But it's beautiful to be embraced by the people. Some people have said to me well, you know, don't you think that kind of success spoils one as a artist? Or you know, if you're a punk rocker, you don't want to have a hit record. And I say, you know, fuck you. You know, it's just like one does their work for the people and the more people you can touch, the more wonderful it is. You don everyone to be transported or hopefully inspired by it.
Speaker 2:I love that. I love Patty. Anytime you hear her talk I just get chills and I just want to go curl up at her feet with a blanket and have her just give me a feast of wisdom and knowledge. But I can get that from listening to her music and reading her books and hearing her talk. But I love because now, okay, audience, rick Rubin was just telling us don't think about the audience, make the work for you.
Speaker 2:Now Patty is taking that and she is saying a writer or any artist can't expect to be embraced by the people. Right, you can't expect it. She's made records that it seemed like nobody listened to. She's written books that only 50 people have read, so and so. But you keep making it, you keep making it, you keep going.
Speaker 2:But if you're completely concerned with the audience liking what you do, it's going to seep its way into your studio. It's going to affect the ideas you have and the experiments you may try and the risks you may take to grow, to get to the work that you really envision, right, absolutely. And I love how she says it's your calling. And it's also beautiful to be embraced by the people, right, right, when we're confident with the work, where the work is where we want it to be, where we are happy with it and we are confident in it.
Speaker 2:Now is the time we let it go out to the people, and if we're not embraced by the people, that's okay. Take a day or two to cry, take a day or two to curl up in a ball and watch some Netflix and then get over it and move on, because we're trying right. That's what we said. We're trying, but there is the possibility that the audience may like it. The audience, a collector may buy it, a gallery may want to show it, a residency may accept you because of that work that you created. So, thank you, patty. Great, great reminder. Check this out.
Speaker 3:When I was really young, william Burroughs told me and I was really struggling, we never had any money and, william, the advice that William gave me was build a good name, keep your name clean, don't make compromises, don't worry about making a bunch of money or being successful. Be concerned with doing good work and make the right choices and protect your work. And if you build a good name, eventually you know that name will be its own currency. And I remember when he told me that and I said yeah, but William, my name's Smith, you know, just joking, but oh man, I mean, imagine having William Burroughs around you when you were a kid to get advice from.
Speaker 2:Are you kidding me? I mean, that's amazing. And listen, one does their work for the people, and the more people you can touch, the more wonderful. It is right, we're still separating the audience. We're creating our work, but isn't the goal to touch people's lives with what we create? Right? Is that not the goal? If your goal is completely to make money and just be wealthy and sell your work, well, I mean, I hate to say it and that's fine, that's great, right? Like Jerry Salt says, I want every artist to be rich. It's just not that way.
Speaker 2:If that's your sole focus and your sole goal, I think you're going to miss out on making some really great art throughout your lifetime, and that may not be important to you. That may not. That's fine. Do what you want to do. That's not why I make art, and we can sit and argue over drinks about that. If you want some time, that's fine with me as well. But I love that.
Speaker 2:William Burroughs told her when she was really struggling. You know, she had no money, she had nothing, and he told her just build a good name. How? Um, she had nothing. And he told her just build a good name. How often do we think about that these days? I feel like that's something that's totally missing in our society, that people are really focused on and concerned with building a good name, having good character, good standing. He says keep your name clean, don't compromise or worry about making a bunch of money or being successful. Be concerned with doing good work and making right choices to protect your work.
Speaker 2:The second you start to sample or get a taste of financial success and market success, you run the risk of it diluting your work. At success, you run the risk of it diluting your work because your focus then leaves the work and it starts gearing towards well, now I live at a lifestyle that is X, y, z, so much higher than I was, but I have to maintain that right. The focuses are going to get way larger in other areas of life than in your studio, where the focus is really big. And I love how he says if you build a good name, eventually that name will be its own currency. Eventually your name will become its own currency why? Well, because your name is now recognized and synonymous with your work. Recognize and synonymous with your work and you've spent all this time building and experimenting, taking risks and growing your work and not worrying about the audience and trying to improve and get the work out the door that eventually, the name will be synonymous with the work and the work. The name will become the currency 2025, a new year, new doors, new life.
Speaker 2:Let's think about that. Let's build a good name behind what we're doing and creating. I really, really love that. Here's some more from Patty.
Speaker 3:To be an artist, actually to be a human being in these times. It's all difficult. You have to go through life hopefully. You know trying to stay healthy. You know being as happy as you can and pursuing. You know doing what you want.
Speaker 3:If what you want is to have children, if what you want is to be a baker, if what you want is to live out in the woods or try to save the environment, or maybe what you want is to be a baker, if what you want is to live out in the woods or try to save the environment, or maybe what you want is to write scripts for detective shows, it doesn't really matter. What matters is to know what you want and pursue it and understand that it's going to be hard because life is really difficult. You're going to lose people you love, you're going to suffer heartbreak, sometimes you'll be sick, sometimes you'll have a really bad toothache, sometimes you'll be hungry, but on the other end you'll have the most beautiful experiences, sometimes just the sky, sometimes a piece of work that you do that feels so wonderful, or you find somebody to love, or your children. There's beautiful things in life. So when you're suffering, it's part of the package. You know.
Speaker 3:You look at it, we're born and we also have to die. We know that. So it makes sense that we're going to be really happy and things are going to be really fucked up too. Just ride with it. You know, it's like a rollercoaster ride. It's never going to be perfect. It's going to have perfect moments and then rough spots, but it's all worth it. Believe me, I think it is.
Speaker 2:Just ride with it. Just ride with it. It's not easy. You back at my 2024, there were a lot of things I did not want to ride with. I had some beautiful moments. I had some incredible moments in 2024, like life-changing, character-building, impactful moments, but I also had a bunch of moments of just stagnant, not doing what I wanted to do, Things not working the way I wanted them to work, Career things stalling or moving in directions that I thought would move further and they're not all those things Right.
Speaker 2:And, as Patty says, if you're going to be an artist, hold on timeout, not just artists, actually a human being. Today, in these times, it's all difficult. We're going to have times when we're healthy, when we're sick, when we're happy, when we're not. If what you want to do is what you want to do, it doesn't matter. What matters is do you know what you want? This is what I've been kind of goal searching and this is what I've been kind of mind mapping. Well, what do I want? I know I want to make the best work I can make in my lifetime. I know I want to do more sculpture. I know I want to do a lot more fiber, like big fiber things. Within my work. It's been leading me that way. I need to pursue it. I have the understanding that it's going to be difficult, because I've been in this world for a long time. It's going to be hard. It's going to be very, very difficult. And then when we mix life into the difficulty of us being artists in the studio, with whatever we're making and doing and the challenges now we're mixing life on the outside in, as Patty said, we lose people we love. We're going to suffer heartbreak, be sick, We'll be hungry, but at the other end there's beautiful experiences as well, and sometimes we just need the sky. I love that. She said that in there. I always encourage the artists that go through my mentorship program and my friends take time for soul care. Please, please, please, take time for soul care. I don't know what that looks like for you, but sometimes maybe you just need to step outside, stand in the yard or the street or on the rooftops, wherever you are, and just look at the sky, that magical, beautiful, awe-inspiring piece of creation that may be blue or red or yellow, or look at the stars, whatever that is. That's art. It's the most beautiful art that exists. Sometimes you just need to go out there and just look at the sky and then I love that. She says sometimes just a piece of work that you do feel so wonderful. Celebrate those moments more, looking back on 2024.
Speaker 2:I thought I didn't do anything, I didn't make enough art. All this stuff, I made stuff, I did things. Maybe it wasn't where I wanted it to be, which is pretty normal for me. I'm always. My head is so far ahead of what I'm executing in the studio. But I look back and there were a few pieces that I thought were really wonderful. I need to celebrate those rather than be apathetic and think I didn't accomplish anything, Because all those pieces that I did, happy or not, are leading me to the next pieces that I'm going to create this year. It's just part of the package. All of this, like she said, is just part of the package.
Speaker 2:Nathan obviously isn't here today. He is in Munich. He has his solo show major solo show opening this Friday. I wish I was there. I was really hoping I'd sell a few more paintings at the end of the year last year so that I could accompany him on the trip. I know that he's going to be recording a couple episodes from the Benjamin Eck Gallery where his work will be showing in Munich, Germany. So if you're in Munich, if you're German, or if you're in Europe and you're close to Germany, if you're close to Munich, in Munich, if you're German, or if you're in Europe and you're close to Germany, if you're close to Munich this coming Friday yes, this Friday of this week Nathan's show will be opening and I've seen the work. I've walked through the work with him. He and I have discussed the work with our friend, Eric Brees um numerous times over the past months as he's been working on it, and it is wonderful, Absolutely incredibly wonderful. I'm so excited. I'm sure that Benjamin Eck is going to be going crazy for the work because it looks absolutely incredible. So if you're in Munich, definitely go to the Benjamin Eck Gallery and see the show. Also, tell people about to. He'll have posts on Instagram. You'll see the work. You'll see him showing it. So many fun things for Nathan that are coming ahead that just I can't wait for you guys to see, as as we share those over the next few weeks.
Speaker 2:I have some fun things happening this year that I'm really excited about. I mean, they happened right at the beginning of the year after I made my list of things that I want to go after. This year. I made a list right. I've been looking at my finances from last year. I've been looking at small micro goals and little things to try and accomplish and go after. I've been looking at big picture goals, career pushing goals and a few things have happened without that I had on my list that I haven't even tried. They just kind of were there. I'll be on a really dear friend's podcast we're recording this Friday called the Alchemy Lab. It's brand new. I think I'm going to be the first episode, so I'm really excited. My dear friend Alison Adams. I've known her for a long, long time and she is a beautiful, absolutely incredible, wonderful soul and a fantastic artist. She has an incredible idea for this new podcast and she's been painting these alchemy cards to do like a set of cards with. And they are. They're incredible, they're so cool. So we will definitely push that out as that comes.
Speaker 2:Set some goals. What do you want to do this year? What do you want to accomplish? What are you looking forward to? What was rough last year that you can change this upcoming year? Is there anything that you can do to build your network? That's so important? Connect deeper with other artists. Spend more time with other artists Talking about your work, Talking about your work, talking about your goals and where you want to go. You need that accountability. Trust me, you better have that accountability, because it's too too hard to do by yourself. It's too hard. Do some WhatsApp video, mess uh talks with other artists, get to know people. Do some Instagram lives with other artists and just talk about what you're making and what you're doing and what your goals are and invite other artists to take part. Set up a show in your apartment, in your garage, in a local cafe, with other artists, friends of yours, just so that you can connect and add a line on that resume. Right, Do what you need to do to push the career further, Even if you're doing your own things. I know we encourage that a lot Do your own stuff sometimes, but I just want to encourage you all.
Speaker 2:This year, Nathan and I will be back together shortly after his Munich trip and he, like I said, he's doing an episode there with the curator who, from Milan, Italy, who's curating his exhibition there. So we're excited to share that. We've got some really fun things coming up this year. But go network, meet some people go see some shows. Tomorrow I head to Houston. I'll be down in Houston dropping work off to one of my dealers, Mont art house downtown Houston, who I adore. I love them, Just such a beautiful group of women and dropping off new work for them and bringing old work back. But I'm also having an art date, something that Julia Cameron, from the Artist's Way, really, really pushes hard. Take yourself on a date, artists. Take yourself out, as they would say in Parks and Rec. Donna and Tom, treat yourself.
Speaker 1:Oh, what you want to Donna. Teller T-Mobile Three words for you. Treat yourself.
Speaker 3:Treat yourself 2011.
Speaker 1:Once a year, donna and I spend a day treating ourselves. What do we treat ourselves to? Clothes, treat yourself. Fragrances, treat yourself. Massages, treat yourself. Mimosances, treat yourself. Massages, treat yourself. Mimosas, treat yourself.
Speaker 3:Fine leather goods, treat yourself. It's the best day of the year. The best day of the year.
Speaker 2:Take yourself out, treat yourself to an art date, whatever that may be. I'll be down there. I'm a member of the Museum of Fine Arts Houston, so I'll be going to the MFAH and spending a number of hours there looking at work contemporary and work from art history, and then I'll probably walk over to CAM Houston and see the work that they have. And then I'll walk over to the Twombly across the street and spend a considerable amount of time with Cy Twombly and his work, thinking and writing and dreaming, and then I will walk about a block and a half down to the Rothko Chapel to just sit and spend some time in solitude around the beautiful Rothko pieces, and then I'll head back the next day, so I'll be staying the night. I've already been researching some of the top new restaurants on Eater and top chefs in Houston so I can treat myself to a really good, fun dinner. But take the time to do that. Sometimes I don't know what that looks like for you. Is it a walk on the beach with a bottle of wine? Is it going to a movie by yourself? I love going to movies by myself because I can see the films I want to see. They're not a shared film. I laugh about that all the time. My wife and I have different tastes and things. There's a lot of things we like that are the same, but when it comes to film, very different. So I want to go see my films. So I'll take myself on a film date sometimes and just go see a movie by myself. We need that time. We need downtime from art sometimes too right To separate ourselves and just have that time doing something we enjoy. Maybe that's going and hitting some golf balls I don't know what it is for you, but find it. Go, do it. Get outside, look at the sky. Start planning for this year. If you haven't been doing it, I highly encourage you to start doing it now.
Speaker 2:Set some small goals for this year. They don't have to be 20. It could be a few. A few small goals Apply to five residencies. Apply to two in the US, three international, three in the US, two international. Apply for an artist grant. Apply to five group shows.
Speaker 2:Small micro goals. Set some macro goals to some big achievements. Maybe it's you've wanted to go large scale. Try a six foot or eight foot painting. Maybe you wanted to sculpt. Buy some clay. Do five clay sculptures. Set some goals that you can go after, and if you don't finish them, well, then next year, okay, I need to make sure to do that, but if you set some small ones, you can at least try right, and that's what we really want to influence you all to really really try. We know how bad you want it, nathan, and I want it just as bad for us. We know how bad you all want this.
Speaker 2:That's why you're listening, that's why you're in your studios. That's why we get incredible comments from you about things you're doing. We love to hear what you're doing, so please share with us the things you're doing. Please share the podcast with your friends you're doing, so please share with us the things you're doing. Please share the podcast with your friends. It's growing rapidly, but we would love more artists and more people. And, don't forget, we love hearing your questions, so we will definitely throw your questions in and sprinkle them into episodes throughout the year, so we would love to hear what you have to say.
Speaker 2:Have a blessed rest of the week. I hope that 2025 is magical for you and there's just incredible things, man, our prayers are out there for all of our friends in California who are struggling with the fires. I have had close friends lose homes. I've had a lot of friends evacuate. The fires are not under control yet, as the Santa Ana winds that I grew up with are insane when they happen and when you have a natural disaster it's near impossible to control a fire.
Speaker 2:I grew up around forest fires in Northern California and the Sierra Nevadas um my whole life and I even worked some summers doing um forest clearing, um prepping for the possibility of fires and clearing out trees and brush and creating space so that things don't spread far.
Speaker 2:So I've had a lot of friends who are hotshot firefighters guys that go drop into the middle of forest fires to clear and take care of things as everybody else comes in, and so I am very familiar with forest fires and just want to thank all of those firefighters that are busting their asses to help save homes. And I know there are a lot of organizations out there that are helping artists who have lost studios and homes and things. So please do your due diligence. If you're going to donate artwork or donate money or help, please do your due diligence to find legitimate organizations to give to, because unfortunately there are a lot of fraudulent ones taking advantage of people with amazing hearts who are giving at this time as well. So, um with that, uh, this is Ty being solo signing off. Love you all. We will see you soon. Go make some art, bye.
